Let's hear it for the bullies!!! [Archive]

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Sassy Girl

07-16-2008, 09:45 PM

I have to give some kudos to these guys...

This weekend between Vallejo and Wags there were 13 pitbull type breed dogs (American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffy Bull Terrier) competing in Splash Dogs! Awesome to see these guys out there shining in the public's eye! By the way this doesn't include any pit mixes, GO BULLIES!

I can't wait to see many of you in Santa Rosa!

Wags: 8
Maximus
Bubbles
Twiztid
Alley Kat
Valor
Lilly
Limit
Foxy
and honorable mention to Deno and several other bullies who took the plunge off the practice dock!

Vallejo:5
Sheba
Primo
Tonka
Mystique
Red Alert
Red Alert

If you all are on the board - please post pics of your dogs! I know everyone would love to see them....

Here's two of this weekend's Wags competitors, Twizzy and brother Valor! Twizzy wasn't too happy to be outdone by his brother, but it didn't break his spirit, he was still chortling his head off in the car!
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a254/sassygirl2171/twizvalorwags08.jpg

renegade

07-16-2008, 10:09 PM

Go Bullies!!!

I am 100% a Twizzy fan!

It was great at Vallejo to see and talk with the crowd who were all worried about there being so many "pit bulls" at the event and seeing their surprise when we told them they were wonderful dogs and not causing any issues!

daftershock

07-17-2008, 06:19 AM

Wendy does this mean that SBT can have a SBT of the year???

I think that TWIZZY has earned that spot! ???? He always gives 100%

Wendy you missed all the yodeling in the lap dog finals. For a min or so I thought we were at flyball......

What a great job all of the bullies did!

Limit, Lilly, Foxy's 1st event

Looks like we might have more SBT in future.

Siberian

07-17-2008, 10:02 AM

I must say it out loud: it is my personal goal/agenda/whatever you want to call it, to bring as many pit bulls as possible into the Splash Dogs :)

This weekend has made me super proud for several reasons.

1. My own Sheba got over her fear of the blue pool waters, and was leaping without hesitation!

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z87/ckdove/SPLASH%20DOGS%2008%20jul%2012%202008/IMG_0585-1.jpg

2. Tonka, who came out to compete for the first time, not only ended up jumping, but also went through 5 feet to 6 feet to 7 feet in the matter of two days!!

3. Red Alert, whom I have met at Vallejo for the first time, came there to try/practice. His owner had so much fun jumping him, she also ended up competing :)

I have not witnessed Primo jump, but remembering how he was the only bulldog to jump into icy March waters at the fishermans expo, I am sure he made us all look good once again :)

renegade

07-17-2008, 12:29 PM

Melissa,
Our guideline for having a dog of the year for a given year is to have at least 5 dogs of a given breed have 5 scores in the rankings period (october to october).

Right now there are 4 SBT's that meet that criteria. You'll need to find one more to take those jumps to qualify!!

The current list of breeds that will definitely have a breed of the year award for 2008 (more can be added as more breeds meet the above criteria):
Border Collie
Chessies
Goldens
Jack Russell Terrier
Lab
Duck Tollers
Other (mixed breed)

Sardo

07-17-2008, 02:00 PM

Wendy,

Where are we at with the American Pit Bull Terrier?

renegade

07-17-2008, 02:03 PM

NevadaPuP

07-17-2008, 04:20 PM

Siberian

07-17-2008, 05:07 PM

Wendy, can we count American Pit Bull Terrier and American Staffordshire Terrier as one? Technically, it is the same dog. My dog goes by both, depending on a situation :))

CaptainBigBark

07-17-2008, 05:15 PM

I love watching the bullies jump! It was neat to see that mini EV set up too.. I think its great what you guys are doing to help educate the public on them. Its very much needed...

tlhesq

07-17-2008, 06:41 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mi8Mt10wyq0

Sassy Girl

07-17-2008, 07:18 PM

Oh my gosh, I love it!

all4sadie

07-17-2008, 09:53 PM

Oh that is too bad that our pit hates water. We adopted him 6 years ago...he was abused and they used to spray him with the hose..very mean person had him, I won't go into what else poor Buster went thru.

He is now a love and the most gentle dog I know (ok besides Sadie) ........he is a huge lap dog. :-) we love him

tlhesq

07-17-2008, 10:06 PM

His brother goes in the water but hasn't quite taken the plunge off the dock yet. He's getting there :-p

Sardo

07-18-2008, 11:00 AM

Just show him a couple of pics of maximus and that might motivate him a little more!!!!!

dove

07-18-2008, 07:29 PM

renegade

07-18-2008, 07:40 PM

It's 5+ scores. A score is earned in each wave you jump in, finals also count as a wave.

Let me know if that still doesn't make sense.

dove

07-18-2008, 07:47 PM

Tonka jumped in 5 waves, earning a score for each, and the open final, she earned a score. Making her having more than 5. So Tonka is one of the two American Staffordshires you listed then?

It's 5+ scores. A score is earned in each wave you jump in, finals also count as a wave.

Let me know if that still doesn't make sense.

daftershock

07-18-2008, 08:55 PM

Hey Wendy,

Could you check and see how Scrappy doo is registered... He is AKC ILP SBT.

Thanks

:O)

Sassy Girl

07-18-2008, 10:39 PM

I forgot about Scrappy Doo...that's right, he's just not a lap dog....

Not sure how many waves he's jumped in though....

daftershock

07-18-2008, 10:46 PM

He has jumped in more then 5 waves but keeps jumping from junior to senior.

It says mix but I know that he is AKC ILP reg as a SBT. I show with him.. He recieved AKC high point SBT in Rally-o in 2007.

Dog: Scrappy Doo Handler: Christine Edwards Owner: Christine Edwards
Breed: Other Breed2: Staffordshire Bull Terrier mix Gender: M Height: 0.00 Dog Birthdate: 2002-09-10
Event Name Wave Name Wave Date Score Division
Splash Dogs OC Pet Expo 2008 - Costa Mesa, CA Wave 4 2008-04-12 13.09 Junior
Splash Dogs OC Pet Expo 2008 - Costa Mesa, CA Wave 7 2008-04-13 15.10 Senior
Splash Dogs OC Pet Expo 2008 - Costa Mesa, CA Open Finals 2008-04-13 17.03 Senior
Splash Dogs Wags For Wishes Dock Jumping Challenge - Chula Vista, CA Wave 4 2008-07-12 13.00 Junior
Splash Dogs Wags For Wishes Dock Jumping Challenge - Chula Vista, CA Wave 6 2008-07-12 13.02 Junior
Splash Dogs Wags For Wishes Dock Jumping Challenge - Chula Vista, CA Open Finals 2008-07-13 13.10 Junior

renegade

07-19-2008, 09:29 AM

It doesn't matter if the scores split divisions (that matters for qualifying for worlds). For rankings and dog of the year, it is just 5+ scores.

I have Scrappy as an other cause that's what was put down on the reg form...

I'll make the change.

And yes, tonka was one of the 2 with 5+ scores.

Siberian

07-24-2008, 10:16 AM

Wendy, did you see my question about APBT and AST being one group?

Sardo

07-24-2008, 10:57 AM

I do not agree with combining the two together. They are recognized as a seperate breed and I think it should be kept that way.

renegade

07-24-2008, 12:36 PM

My feeling is that if we're going to combine, them, then we're going to completely combine them - not keep them separate, but then count them together sometimes.

As a result, if there is a consensus in the apbt, ast world that they are the same thing and should be combined, then I have no problem with it, however if there are feelings that they are separate, then I don't think we should get involved in that issue!

Sardo

07-24-2008, 01:25 PM

What would we call it anyways if we combined them????????

SplishSplashCrash

07-24-2008, 03:50 PM

What would we call it anyways if we combined them????????

an APBST

an american pit bull s*** terrier?

jk

but seriously though they are 2 VERY different breeds, no need to combine them

if you do then we might as well combine duck tolling retrievers, labrador retrievers, golden retrievers, flat coated retrievers, curly coated retrievers, since they are all retrievers *eye roll*

I agree with Brian. Leave em be :)

legallyblonde

07-24-2008, 05:59 PM

I don't know....at UKC, a dog that is registered as an American Staffordshire Terrier with AKC will be registered as an American Pit Bull Terrier with UKC. Many are dually registered. I think they may differ in type a bit, but are essentially the same breed. Once the names were split, I think lines diverged and the AKC AST's are a little different looking from the UKC APBT's, as it is my understanding the AKC lines were more bred for show and UKC APBT's are bred for both conformation and performance--such as agility and especially weight pull. From my view, from the UKC viewpoint, I see them as essentially the same basic breed, sharing the same origins.

dove

07-24-2008, 09:46 PM

What would we call it anyways if we combined them????????
I don't think we should 'COMBINED' them as making one whole new BREED ... but maybe 'partnering' them is a better way to say it. Heck when it comes to banning them, they are put together, so why is this different? Ohhh wait, maybe it is because it is showing something positive to this this breed? So it isn't worth combineding them?
This is a GOOD thing for people to see that this breed, APBT and AmStaff is doing in this sport. It shows that they are more than what people read about in the paper or hear about on the news. Gives a different look on them, and that they are not so MEAN and scary.
As of right now there is only 2 APBT's, 2 AmStaff's (my Tonka is one of the AmStaffs) ... So what harm would it be to partner them into one catorgory? I mean wow it would give them 4 Dogs towards the 2008 Rankings.

I do not agree with combining the two together. They are recognized as a seperate breed and I think it should be kept that way.
It depends what kennel club is looking at the dog. My Tonka is reg AKC American Staffordshire Terrier, and she also is UKC American Pit Bull Terrier. She is one Dog, but is reconized by two seperate name by two different kennel clubs.

Here's the current counts of dogs with 5+ jumps in the 2008 rankings period by breed

2 | American Pit Bull Terrier
2 | American Staffordshire Terrier
3 | Australian Cattle Dog
3 | Australian Shepherd
1 | Beauceron
1 | Belgian Malinois
1 | Belgian Tervuren
16 | Border Collie
1 | Border Terrier
2 | Catahoula
15 | Chesapeake Bay Retriever
3 | Curly-Coated Retriever
2 | Doberman Pinscher
1 | Flat-Coated Retriever
1 | German Shepherd Dog
2 | German Shorthaired Pointer
13 | Golden Retriever
5 | Jack Russell Terrier
84 | Labrador Retriever
8 | Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever
21 | Other
1 | Parson Russell Terrier
1 | Pembroke Welsh Corgi
1 | Rat Terrier
4 | Staffordshire Bull Terrier

renegade

07-24-2008, 10:17 PM

Hey all,
Let's keep this a positive discussion. I think every person I've met in splash dogs is very positive about the bully breeds.

Most of the people participating in this discussion have dogs of the breed(s) in question.

So - here's the deal from the statistics standpoint.

I originally came up with the splash dogs list of recognized breeds from the UKC list because it is more thorough than the AKC list. If I remember correctly, there was a request to add the APDT (in addition to the AST), so I accomodated that request since the AKC does recognize that breed. Now, I am hearing mixed things about wanting them seen as the same or different breeds.

My feeling is that as long as there are people who want them separate, they should remain separate. If you want them seen as the same, then you should be convincing the other people with dogs of that breed to all join together and declare their dog one or the other so that you have the numbers to get a "breed of the year" award. Or, even better, get 5 of each "breed" out, so there can be one of each. That is the only reason I can see to have them "combined".

That said, if there is enough consensus one way or the other, the splash dogs rules committee will discuss this further, but so far, I'm not really seeing a strong argument for either way.

I think the bully breeds are awesome and I think it's great to showcase a positive aspect of them. That said, I think not having a breed of the year award this year for them if they remain split is not going to change the overall perspective that splash dogs has while trying to help you promote what great dogs these breeds can be when given the right homes and environment!

Sardo

07-25-2008, 08:15 AM

I don't see combining them making any difference as Wendy said. Team triple threat has done a good job for the past two years without them recognizing a top APBT or Staffy for the year and as far as rankings go Maximus would be #1 at the moment so that title would go to him. Would it be nice, yes of course it would, but I do not want to start mixing breeds together just so we can have a top ranked dog for the year. The numbers of bullies that are starting to show up at events this past year is amazing and team triple threat has been a big part of that turnout, so I have no doubt that we will be having a recognized top breed for the APBT and AST in the next year or so. Also, You will also have to convice Primo's mom that she will no longer hold the record for the AST due to us combining them, which i would'nt be to happy about it. This topic will never be agreed in this world or the next so I say keep it as it was as there weren't any problems before and it shouldn't start now.

Wendy,

As far as records go, once a dog is registered as that breed in the SD system are people allowed to change it. I can now see this as a problem, people trying to change what breed they have to fit their needs.

Sassy Girl

07-25-2008, 09:45 AM

As I mentioned to Wendy - this is a steamy subject. There is a huge disconnect in the pitbull world on whether the two are one or not. Personally, and this may have to go to the rules committee as well, but I think once you claim your dog to be one breed, it should stand, unless it is an administrative error (my paperwork wasn't filled out so registration put it in as other, or something along those lines).

renegade

07-25-2008, 11:00 AM

Urs - I concur. I think that breed changes due to admin error are fine, however other changes need to be presented to the rules committee on an individual basis for consideration?

Sassy Girl

07-25-2008, 12:16 PM

Wendy - I think that wording is perfect.

when you heading to Santa Rosa?

lucia

08-30-2008, 07:43 PM

Also, You will also have to convice Primo's mom that she will no longer hold the record for the AST due to us combining them, which i would'nt be to happy about it.

I'm perfectly happy having them "officially" combined....I'm combined anyways....and I personally do NOT believe it is 2 different breeds.....different TYPES, yes....BREEDS, no.

Primo is:
UKC ILP: APBT AKC ILP/PAL: Am Staff

Agility: UKC and USDAA: APBT
AKC: AST

Obedience: UKC and AKC

Dock Dogs: APBT
Splash Dogs: AST

To me, at the end of the day, it's just a "bully". But, that's just my humble opinion. Whatever makes it better for the "breed" on paper or in the public eye, works for me. If we combine and we can be "top breed of the year" then I say combine. If we get there by being separate. so be it. The important thing is we MOVE ONWARD AND UPWARD.

Oh, and BTW, with today's personal best at 21' 6" jump, I'm on my way and close to being the #1 AST or APBT....

SIKE!

Siberian

09-01-2008, 10:24 AM

Bullies did it again!
I personally witnessed Primo's awesome jump of 21.6. Lucia went out on the dock and said "Watch, 21!!", and Primo did just what she wanted him to do :)

Sheba has raised the bar for herself this weekend as well, with a new personal best of 13'00". She is really climbing up, starting this season with 10's and 11's. I am proud of my little bully
:p

As far as the suggestion to combine, I don't know if it is still up for a discussion, but in negative limelight these dogs are thrown under the bus together. It would be much better for the breed if they were not separated in a good light. Considering most of them are dual registered anyway.